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Post by David of Doell on Jun 11, 2009 14:43:34 GMT -7
With the discussion about loaner weapons on Monday I had some thoughts. I think it's a good topic to discuss. I just want to open up all loaner weapon discussion as well.
There was the thought of having short/non-stabbing loaner weapons to motivate people to make their own weapons. I agree with motivating people to make their own weapons but to do so too quickly could discourage a potential member. What I'm saying is that for a first time attender to pick up a 12" blue sword and go up against the long sworded Mog or Darr wouldn't be that "fun" for a new person. Experienced people know that length isn't everything of course but these are beginners and they need an even playing field. I would suggest having at least one loaner long sword (something close to Mog's). I think you should have a grace period before you start "motivating". What is a fair grace period? Eight practices? Twelve? For a sort of guideline.
Cib how long have some of the Friday practice people been coming before they made a weapon?
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Post by Moginheden on Jun 11, 2009 15:30:44 GMT -7
My personal philosophy is everyone should bring enough weapons for themselves in any game. This means more than one weapon set as some games need a short blue, some work best with long range weapons, some work best with shields, and some work best with your favorite weapon choice, (usually a lot more than a single short blue.)
If everyone followed this rule, the weapons that aren't currently in use would become loaner weapons that people who haven't built up their sets yet can use. Meaning you get a weapon that isn't ideal unless you bring your own.
However people who are truly new, (first or second time out) will not know what weapons they can and can't use. Because of this they will grab the weapon they want rather than a "loaner" weapon. It is up to the discretion of the player who owns that weapon if they will correct the mistake or not. I recommend that the newbie be allowed to use that weapon as they will be TOO easy to kill if given a crap weapon and that's less fun for both the more advanced players and the newbies.
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Post by Moginheden on Jun 11, 2009 15:34:15 GMT -7
I know a few times I have specifically grabbed a weapon set that wasn't my ideal in order to make the game more fun. When I'm wearing all my armor wielding both my long blues vs a newbie with only 1 of my daggers it's not a game, it's a joke, and that's no fun.
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Post by Darr on Jun 11, 2009 19:08:10 GMT -7
Well I know that right now I am trying to build up my armory so that I can go anywhere and take up the game with people. My armory isn't so good at the moment because all I have is swords for the most part. I plan to spend allot of my summer building about eight shields or so and I know that, that will improve my armory a great deal!
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Post by David of Doell on Jun 13, 2009 15:39:11 GMT -7
I agree that eventually players should have all their own weapons but what kind of time frame do you think is reasonable? I think I had my first weapon made after only a few weeks of coming to practices. I'm guessing that's out of the norm. I think after 6 practices you should have at least have read about weapon making and started your own. At this point you'll have decided you like the game and will know how it works fairly well.
I have an idea for the weapon "jacking". Just designate a specific zone, on the ground by the loaner suitcase let's say, as the loaner zone where any weapon there is free for use. That way if you're selfish(hehe) or sensative about other people using your weapons you can just keep them in your own area. If you don't care then you can put some or all of your weapons there for anyone to use. It eliminates anyone having to ask if they can use a weapon. As the rest of us build up our arsenals it will take some pressure off of Cib because right now he's the only one with official loaner weapons. It's better for each of us to lend out a weapon than for only Cib to lend out 3. I think it's good practice in any group not to dump everything on the leader. I'm not putting anyone down I'm just saying this is something that we can all help out with. And it sounds like things are already coming together.
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Hakan
Recruit
B?s Roimh Eason?ir - Death Before Dishonour
Posts: 15
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Post by Hakan on Jun 13, 2009 23:24:08 GMT -7
Just a thought but: Why not white electrical tape?
You should already have some system for marking Reds, Blues, Greens...just add another band of white which means "Hey, I don't want this used by anyone but me"
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Post by Moginheden on Jun 14, 2009 18:12:30 GMT -7
I think I wasn't clear.
What I'm saying is for the first 2 practices all weapons are free to the newbie. After that the newbie gets only the leftover weapons other people don't want. There is no time frame on when you have to make your own weapons by; however people will want to make their own weapons if they are stuck with the crap ones.
All of these rules are not hard-and-fast, they depend on the skill level of the participants. The idea is until the newbie knows they want to join they get anything they want. Once they know they want to join they get a fighting chance, but still a handicap vs people who spent the time to build their own weapons.
If we had specific loaner weapons that isn't really dynamic enough in my mind. I want the lazy person to stand a chance, but the weaponsmith to have an advantage. Skill plays into this too. A few times I've allowed a player who has been to quite a few practices to have a better weapon than I take for myself because I know I'll still beat them.
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Post by Darr on Jun 15, 2009 9:54:19 GMT -7
I am of the personal opinion that when someone joins the group that right up front we make them pay for a plain tabard and a sword with a standard length of our choosing. That way they have immediately invested money into Belegarth and will be more likely to attend practices. The sword shouldn't be too small but long enough to afford them to use it with different shields and other weapon combinations to figure out which one he/she likes best. When he/she finds that out for themselves they will doubtless want to make there own.
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Post by Cib on Jun 15, 2009 11:36:24 GMT -7
Just a thought but: Why not white electrical tape? You should already have some system for marking Reds, Blues, Greens...just add another band of white which means "Hey, I don't want this used by anyone but me" Nice idea. There is always that annoying white role in the colored pack, it would give it a use. What are Numenor's policies/culture when to comes to weapons Hakan? |
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Post by Moginheden on Jun 15, 2009 11:47:17 GMT -7
I am of the personal opinion that when someone joins the group that right up front we make them pay for a plain tabard and a sword with a standard length of our choosing. That way they have immediately invested money into Belegarth and will be more likely to attend practices. The sword shouldn't be too small but long enough to afford them to use it with different shields and other weapon combinations to figure out which one he/she likes best. When he/she finds that out for themselves they will doubtless want to make there own. I'm against this because it will discourage people from joining up at all. We are currently low on members. I'd prefer members who leech off our weapons than no members at all. |
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Post by Darr on Jun 16, 2009 7:33:10 GMT -7
Why would it discourage members? I don't see that and besides I was not talking about the first time people who try out Belegarth but people who are serious about joining already. If we are to be taken seriously we should have some kind of structure and when someone is serious about joining they need some kind of initiation that will make them feel like they belong and they need invest something into the sport so that they will be more likely to attend practices. Also I'm not saying that the rules be exactly like what I said but If someone is going to become a member there should be some kind of rule about it like they must have there own weapon and tabard or something. It doesn't really matter if they make it themselves or if we make it but they must have them to be considered a FULL member.
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Post by Cib on Jun 16, 2009 8:59:41 GMT -7
Last night me and Darr were talking about this. I don't think the idea is coming across properly on the forum. I think it is a pretty decent idea, so let me give it a go.
Technically everyone who signs a waiver is a member I believe. So what we are really talking about are "Gold Members" (to use credit card terms). Kinda like a rank in the realm. Not anyone can just be a gold member. For example, you must own basic garb and a weapon. Maybe go through some very simple initiation trial. They are put on the list as "Gold Members" and allowed to use the fancy title of "Gold Member".
The idea is to identify with the sports culture. Eg, after a demo we say "We will be in the back to answer your questions", when someone asks "what does take to join?" we say "Anyone can try for free and it is only $20 to become a gold member."
This immediately tells them how cheep this is compared to other sports and if they chose to singe up, creates a small commitment (money or time tends to do that). It also gets more garb and weapons on the field.
They don't have to buy the starter kit for $20, they can make their own if they want and just take the initiation trial...
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Post by Moginheden on Jun 16, 2009 12:02:10 GMT -7
My thinking is having to pay means people who arn't sure won't try it because they don't want to spend money.
The idea of a membership creating loyalty would help lower member turnover, but it also might prevent someone from joining in the first place.
As long as people know that they can try it more than once before they have to pay anything it might work... just don't want to scare people off.
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Post by Darr on Jun 16, 2009 12:44:33 GMT -7
As long as people know that they can try it more than once before they have to pay anything it might work... just don't want to scare people off. Of course anyone can try our sport for free but have you ever heard of any club where you did not have to pay anything? In a town like Airdrie (a sports town) people would actually be suspicious if we told them they could join our club for nothing. If you know what I mean? People just won't take us seriously as an organization if we don't have some sort of official initiation where they have to put a bit of money down on the table. A big emphasis on the the phrase " a bit of money". |
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Hakan
Recruit
B?s Roimh Eason?ir - Death Before Dishonour
Posts: 15
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Post by Hakan on Jun 16, 2009 14:38:39 GMT -7
Just a thought but: Why not white electrical tape? You should already have some system for marking Reds, Blues, Greens...just add another band of white which means "Hey, I don't want this used by anyone but me" Nice idea. There is always that annoying white role in the colored pack, it would give it a use. What are Numenor's policies/culture when to comes to weapons Hakan? Ours is a bit different, as we have Edhellen right in our backyard and many [Read: Most] people who work there fighting at our practices. They tend to bring loaners so... On the other hand I've seen it done where the realm will hold a huge weapons making party (and sometimes armour gets thrown in there too) and everyone's asked to make a single loaner weapon (this was a Dag realm in Missouri) so I guess it's just up to personal style ^^ |
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